Regarding your penultimate comment.....

• Ronniesneffe, thanks for your text. But while reading your text it became clear for me what is meant with the synonym “baby-English”. At the beginning I had some problems to understand you. The word order of the American English is sometimes really confusing. This experience I have also done with the book “Operation Management” of the publisher Mc Graw-Hill Irwin. Some old German economic people have described our superficial school-English, which is also used in some enterprises, as counterproductive. It doesn’t improve the efficiency. Understandingly, but I hope I’ll improve my English.
  
  Because, you also observed indirectly, we’ve not the possibility to sit opposite each other wiv a cold “Jever”, I want to comment quoting on your statements.
  
  I don’t know how I have to express it, but with the most of your comment I agree regarding the basic construct, but I have the opinion that it needs to be seen more in a more nuanced light as well as described more differentiated. Furthermore in such a non-objective board it is important to describe the subject in relation to as well as to the positive things. Otherwise it depict a skewed view what can be quite dangerous and certainly abolish chances. In this spirit I’m glad that Karla has a pleasant and a not always self-explanatory tolerant view. It would be paradisiacal if only 50 percent of the humanity would have such an attitude. With comparing I mean also comparing the historical, social, demographical and geographical circumstances. The mere fact that Germany has 10 neighbour countries it is difficult to compare. So its conceivable that there are conflict situations. It become clear that Germany is and was a product of the environment. The Americans should know it exactly. The American politic has and had a significant influence in Germany. That begins wiv the German identity as well as wiv the German position on the Israel – Palestine conflict.
  
  In the following I´ll comment your statements:
  
  - “I wish you a great trip. Extra-Tip: Advertising the fact that you are Mexican & JUST VISITING could improve your experience.“ – You agree wiv the opinion of „mee“ that there is a general interest regarding foreign cultures in Germany? Regarding this fact I’ve made a lot experience. For example with my Portuguese girl friend. The people always evince friendly interest. When the people hear her name you´re always hearing…”Ohhhh….du bist aus Portugal?! Das ist ja schön! Erzähl mal!
  
  - “Isn’t it fair to tell Mr. Smith the truth & let him make the best decision based on as much information as possible? A fully informed resident is far more productive than a disillusioned one. Naturally things like jealousy affect people on vacation to a lesser extent, but they too should have access to accurate information.” – I hold that you reflect too much in detail but differentiate insufficient. It´s really important to consider the bad and good things. Otherwise it’s not fair and irresponsible. I also distinguish in Brazil or in the USA. I can also numerate numerical problems but also regard the positive things and evaluate. If I account only the bad things, I act prejudiced and intolerant. I don’t want to abuse u as a intolerant person. Ohhh no, far from it! I believe that u differentiate for your own.
  
  - “If you don’t act envious, then you are happy & satisfied with your life, what you have, & what you have earned…IN COMPARISON TO THOSE AROUND YOU!” – In general your statement is right. But regarding our theme it is important to differentiate in a more detailed way. It is important to consider the social, historical and ideological circumstances. In Germany and the most parts of Europe there is a socialistically awareness what is really difficult for the American to understand or they don’t have the needed horizon to understand this fact. I don’t want to act deprecatingly and I’ve also separate in this theme but I notice that even American politics have not the needed long-sightedness and the comprehension what the socialistically features includes. There r old men who abuse the democrats as communists or declaim the “New deal” as socialistically movement. The same I also recognized in Brazil. Definitely you are wondering why I accost the socialistically awareness regarding the theme of enviousness. I gonna try to summarise it in short sentences.
  I have the opinion that enviousness is not only perception out of the humaneness or a result of the identity or education. I have made the experience that enviousness also results out of the coincidence of socialist ally and capitalist ally awareness. This you can notice in East Germany. And I know East Germany cause of my familiarly history and place of birth very well. I noticed that the enviousness in East Germany is really apparent. The reasons are really strange to be answered but I think it´s important to examine this phenomenon. The East Germans have a specific relation to consumption or rather the capitalism. For decades they lusted for “west products”. There were also people who collected Coca-Cola cans on their ledges. “Intershops” smelled like gums and for them the smell was paradisiacal. Otherwise there was a ideological big bang wiv the Fall of the Wall. It was a shock. The identity has been changed. For decades they cursed the enemy behind the “anti-fascistic protective barrier” and now they r also citizen of this country. This shock u cannot handle in a short time. This needs decades what many Germany do not understand. So, the East German is directly confronted with the colourful and sweet consumption products. He only smells “Intershop” and collaps. The paradise. At every corner they try to debauch him wiv grabby credits so he can have everything. But all of a sudden the East German recognise that he doesn’t get these things wiv a “Westpaket”. Money rules the world. He has to pull the strings and create an own self – confidence. A new identity, which disagrees wiv his old one. But he cannot pull down his old identity. That doesn´t work. That means that he acts wiv a less socialistically act in a capitalistically world. With the old attitude that the state has to care about my personal future and me he acts. Therefore he gets inflexible the financial profit stay away. With this demand of governmental care and the socialist ally thinking that every must have the same he begins to be inactive is asking for orders of the government. ( Germany is the country of reallocations. Everybody have to be aided.) But the the government cannot give him everything and so he cannot get everything he wants. With the old opinion everybody has to earn the same he ask….”why they earn more than me?”. And so there arise a new achievement of enviousness.
  
  With this example I want to describe only one facet. I don’t want to declare that this is the only reason but I want make plain that it is complex to understand Germany. This country has undergone numerically metamorphosis and this includes problems, which has to be handled.
  
  Enviousness is not always negative. It depends on how it is demonstrated. Negative, when u disapprove something someone. Positive, when u use it as a motivation.
  
  - The guy working at the assembly line at VW waiting in line for soccer tickets is not jealous of the drunken homeless guy passed out in the alley. He I envious of the Turkish/Russian guy who just drove by in his new S-Klasse on his way to the VIP entrance to his luxury box in the Allianz Arena. – I think u haven chosen a really disadvantageous example. First, the VW employer is also envy when the homeless drunken guys because he miss the effort.
  
  You but definitely not describing regarding this subject perhaps intentionally choose the example with the Turkish and the Russian. But I can tell a little bit about these phenomena. Actually I´m working for a car rental service while studying. We only rent luxury cars. 75 percent of my workmates have a Turkish background as well as we ´ve many Turkish customers…so I have a wonderful possibility to discuss about this subject. Intrinsically I don´t want to give rise to this subject, because I´m tired about this theme but I want to describe it regarding your example. Furthermore I want declaim that the most people wiv Turkish background starker opinion about his Turkish residents.
  I want to speak about these guys who r sitting in their S- Klasse wiv their ritzy gold chain, intolerant music out of their boxes and gesturing in a aggressive way. I mean these guys who have adequate behaviour, only speaking a slang and recognised that the intelligence is really constricted. Empirically and cause of many dialogues wiv these guys and my Turkish co-workers, I know that these guys didn´t “earned” the money legally. So I cannot pat them on the back. I suppose that u would do the same. Only an example. You wouldn´t also pat the back of a candyman and say….”oh, well done.” I don’t want to continue this theme but I think u understand me.
  
  Another theme is that a lot of is payed on tick, perhaps to demonstrate sth. Or to increase envy. In my enterprise I sing a song about it. But the most overlook this fact….
  
  
  - “VW guy doesn’t care that you legally & ethically earned what you have.” – ahhh…. U mean the employer in Germany, Mexico and Brazil?
  
  - “to him it’s “not fair”. (dass du hast für 8 Jahre studiert & war mehrmals befördert spielt keine rolle.)” – That´s the perfect example, I think. And really I cannot understand why these people cannot comprehend that diploma holder earn more money. The students have extensive additional costs but cannot earn a lot of money as well as they cannot pay for the pension fund while their studies. It means that they have to catch up this financial gap in a shorter time. Furthermore they will work in higher position with more responsibility, which have to be payed. We r not living in communism where the dustman earn the same like the engineer
  
  - “I don’t feel your schools encourage free thinking, but rather the perpetuation of “The Emperor’s New Clothes”.” – I don’t think so. Especially in social studies freethinking is extensively encouraged. For example the Americans didn’t cover themselves with glory regarding this theme.
  
  - “Ladenschlussgesetz: An impractical sign of German inflexibility for over 50 years.” – This catched out of the cloud to firm that the “LAdenschlussgesetze” r a symbol for the inflexibility of Germany. Regarding this topic there is also a socialistically and union background. Really absurd.
  
  - “Ironically, (based on the “no jealousy” post), among the contributing factors was widespread jealousy & envy of the large & successful Jewish population.” – You definitely simplify this theme. Your conclusion seems to be “zurecht gelegt”. Envineous is not a German phenomenon. Regarding the Jewish population the envy was all over the world. There are still a lot of depreciative proverbs in English regarding Jews which describes their cursorily social position in the association. And it’s not rare that for example Americans use the word “Jew” as a cuss word.
  
  - “Every German knows what is meant by “Typisch Deutsch”. I submit that every time a German, REGARDLESS OF GENERATION, behaves in this manner it validates, perpetuates, & propagates the negative perceptions & stereotypes about German people.” – I haven’t made such an experience. And often the statement “ Typisch Deutsch” is an invention by the Germans ´cause of their lacking self – confidence. The Germans notice these blanked statements too seriously. Mostly these statements are meant intentionally sketchy. For example the English often makes jokes about the Germans. But they find it amused and cannot understand why the Germans notice this too seriously. Another example was the images in a polish magazine with Mrs. Merkel in a Nazi – uniform. The most Polish magazines were ashamed about these images and when you research exactly u notice that this magazine belongs to the “Springer-Verlag”. I think that such simplifications u doesn’t have to notice too seriously. Americans, Mexican and Canadian don’t stint with such sweeping statement, too.
  
  - “If you don’t want to live with Post-War shame, make Germany & Germans (by your actions) something less shameful.” – I think that Germany does a lot for his fame. They invest milliards for international promoted projects (e.g. “Action medeor” – the leading pharmaceutical public social aid in Europe), numerous “Goethe – Institute” and the secondary projects care for the international cultural cooperation and regarding the diplomacy Germans has often an interventional position. For example in middle East.
  
  - “If YOU change what “typical” German behavior is, then the opinions & stereotypes will change as well.” – Everyone acts more or less like a stereotype. That’s humanly and a part of our identity. And a loss of identity was often the reason for brutal conflicts.
  
  -“the media can talk all day about your past, but if your present is unequivocally different…then it’s just talk. If you aren’t who they say you are, then make who you are louder than who they “think” you are.” – Please, tell me who the Germans are? I hate the simple examples buts look at the German U-21 national soccerteam.
  
  http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500109
  
  This is a small profile of Germany. Germany is no more …. “Schmidt”, “Schuhmacher”, “Meier”. Germany don´t have to demonstrate something. They have a new identity which can be seen positive. Germany is multi –cultural.
  
  http://www.ropertz-partner.de/images/moschee-duisburg/00.jpg
  
  The most have recognised this fact. And the Germans are at it.
  
  Exemplary, I think that the French and the German society are alike a lot. In German journals you have the same social topics like in French journals. Symbolically the French journal “ Le Monde” and the German one “Berliner Zeitung” make regularly editions in common. That means…that at the front side “Le Monde” is printed and at the back the “Berliner Zeitung” . The motive is to show that the both association are quite similar. I think it’s a wonderful idea.
  
  
  Finally, I want to call, that it is difficult for other nationalities to understand Germany. ´Cause of the geographical layer, the history and the resulting responsibility, Germany has special denotation. It is unacceptable to judge simply about Germany. That’s naïve, provincial, not fair, dump and not cosmopolitan.
  
  Yours respectfully…….

  flyindutch 25 Jun 2009, 04:42 - Verstoß melden

germany sucks